When Abe, Mike, David and I sat down to talk about forming our firm, we asked, “What is it that we didn’t like about all the places we worked before, and let’s not do it again.” And so, it’s not a firm about us. It’s a firm about hiring and mentoring and nurturing people so we can become superfluous or leave and what we’ve created continues to do good things, acknowledging it’s a collaborative process where the architect has an important role at a particular time in that process. Master Builder? No. What about the influence of technology on the industry? Technology has an interesting influence on the profession, and it’s been important. Personally, I’m not savvy on a lot of it. I can draft well, and I can draw well, I can use ink, and I can use Mylar and all those kinds of things. If you were to think of a pencil on a piece of paper and then go to linen and then to Mylar, those are technological advances that improved the way you were able to do it. When we first put the firm together, we were using pin bar drafting and overlay drawings similar to what CAD became on the computer. It was the same idea of layering and thinking about how we improve what we do. Technology was another tool that improved how we do things. The idea of building modeling, where you can look at ductwork conflict with structural conflicts, is very useful. Can I do it? No. Do I understand its value? Yes. Advice to young people starting out in the profession? I would say you need your education for what you learn there, but you really need to be open to real-world experiences. That is what’s going to determine your success. I use the term “swagger” for the students who are good students, who come out of school, and they know everything, and they pass the exams right away and they’re doing great. That’s useful. But then there comes a point where they need to lose the swagger and lose the “I” strain and learn the word “we,” and understand the importance of the contributions of all those other players in the building process. We need to figure out how to work with all kinds of people. We don’t always get to work with our friends. Sometimes we have to work with people we dislike, don’t trust, and are uninformed or just plain stupid. The value is in figuring out how to make it work. Do you want to insist on being right, or do you want to be successful? This can be done without compromise of integrity. To watch the full interview, please scan this QR code: youtu.be/c-vhqLu-_nk ...You really need to be open to real-world experiences. That is what’s going to determine your success. Any other thoughts? I went on the Heritage Foundation Board when I was a student; they recruited me because they needed somebody young. We were fighting the preservation battles: confrontation toe to toe at the intersections, screaming at each other over the Eagle Gate Apartments or whatever. And we thought, maybe we should get this in education and heighten the awareness of the historic value of these buildings at a younger age. So, we started programs in the fourth grade, where they had Utah history in the curriculum, and in the seventh grade, mostly the fourth grade. I did that for 20 years. We covered thousands of students, tens of thousands of students, hundreds of teachers and workshops using architecture as a way of educating the students in community processes, the value of the built environment and how it influenced their lives. For school teachers and young people, it’s been a very good way as an architect to articulate what we do. Who influenced you the most? I had a history professor, Aziz Atiya. He influenced me on the value of education and disciplined learning. He was an amazing scholar and could lecture on some obscure crusade from 1100 for an hour and a half and you didn’t realize you were sitting in the class because he knew his stuff. He taught me that you have to know your stuff. I learned a lot from Jim Christopher. I learned a lot of good things from Chris, and I also learned some things that I probably did differently. Abe Gillies was a master at understanding the technical aspects of construction and realizing the importance of your people. He had huge respect in the construction world because he valued what they did. That was an important thing for me to learn. Last thoughts? I’m glad I did it. It wasn’t what I thought I was going to do, but I think I did it well. And I had a good career and made a lot of good friends. 15
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