When I came back, I started at Santa Monica College, taking General Ed because I wasn’t sure what direction I wanted to go. I had one class in the same building that all the architecture classes were: a rendering class – watercolors, markers and so forth. I thought, “I’ve got to take that class.” So, I took it. The professor said, “You really have a talent. You should go into architecture.” At that point, I finally decided it wasn’t about the money. It was about the love of what you’re doing. I figured if you’re good at what you’re doing, the money will come. Maybe it didn’t come in as big as I was looking for. But I certainly love the profession. Tell us about your training. While I was at Santa Monica College, I met my wonderful wife and we moved to the University of Utah. I love to ski, so it made sense. I graduated first in Urban Planning, which was then in the Geography Department. Then I went to architecture school. While I was attending school, I worked pretty much the entire time. At first, I took construction jobs during the summer and even during Christmas break a couple of times. My first architecture job during school was with the Silver Alsop. Roy Silver had me doing cabinet drawings in isometric. Back then, everything was ink on Mylar. Then I worked for Ken Millard, who was a planner and an architect, but his practice was mostly in planning. It was a really good experience. I think it’s had a huge impact on my career as the majority of my career is focused on residential. When you’re doing condominiums and subdivision work, you start with planning. I approach planning thinking architecture at the same time. I’m thinking density, heights, uses, and so forth. So, by the time I finish a master plan, I also have a pretty good idea of what the product’s going to be. When did you graduate? In 1980. [That year] also ushered in a recession. Here I had my degree; I was ready to go. Two years later, I could get my license, but there was hardly any work out there. I think many of us can relate to Tom Wolfe’s book, From Bauhaus to our House. One of his central themes was that every great architect, and I’m not claiming to be a great architect, all do their mother’s home. What got us through that recession was that I designed and built my mother’s addition on her home. By the time it was done, the economy had picked up, and things improved. It wasn’t long after school that my best friend, Bruce McKnight, another friend, Bob Timmerman, and I started our own firm: McKnight, Shirley, Timmerman. In hindsight, I’m not sure that’s the best advice I would give somebody right out of school. One of the things I discovered is that in architecture school, you learn a lot about design and construction, but they don’t teach you anything about business. I would advise any architecture school that there should be mandatory classes on business because you come out of school assuming you’re this great new artist, and really you’re supposed to be a business person, but with no experience. That was tough, sustaining the business, keeping the money flowing. I think we were in business together for a year or two. Then Bruce moved back to New York, and Bob and I split. That’s when John Shirley and Associates was created. One of my first large jobs as an independent architect was the Red Pine Townhomes at the Park West Ski Resort. The resort’s owner, Jack Roberts, was an attorney from Los Angeles who thought he was living the dream by buying a ski resort because he loved to ski. He discovered that when you own a ski resort, you don’t get to ski. You’re running a business. Because of that project, I was referred to Dave Gardner in Utah County. Dave used to be a planner for Provo. When he quit working for the city, he started doing some development, but he was still doing private consulting. One of his clients was Sundance Ski Resort. Since I had just completed the project at Park West, he referred me to Sundance. It was a big turning point because we started designing several projects for Robert Redford, which allowed me to really push the limits on design and work with a client who appreciated good design. Bob has a reputation for being environmental, and he really is. On his first project, The Cottages, we had to do extensive surveying on the site. We had to build a site model, locate every major tree on the site and model that in. He had two ideas that were kind of revolutionary. One was that he wanted to make sure the car was secondary to the project. He didn’t want garages or carports because he didn’t want that to take away from the environment. The second thing was there would need to be a pedestrian walkway or trail to every one of the cottages. So, you would park in a remote spot and then have to walk. The farthest cottage was probably a hundred yards away from the parking.
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